This is a war that cannot be lost – the full text of the interview with Volodymyr and Olena Zelenskyy

On the occasion of the third anniversary of the inauguration of President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy, ICTV hosts Vadym Karpiak and Olena Frolyak interviewed the head of state and first lady Olena Zelenska.

ICTV Facts publishes the full text of a conversation between the president and the first lady, which took place for the first time since the start of a full-scale war.

Vadym Karpiak: Good day. My name is Vadym Karpyak. This is my colleague Olena Frolyak. And we are honored to repeat the experience of three years ago with the President and the First Lady. Mrs. Olena, Mr. Volodymyr, congratulations.

President: Good day!

Olena Zelenska: Good day!

Vadym Karpiak: We met in the same format for a little over three years (ago – Ed.). You were then a presidential candidate. Three months in politics. And I started the interview with the question “How are you doing these first three months in Ukrainian politics?”

You said two important things. The first is that people are not what you thought they were. And the second is that you have come to value your family much more. Now?..

President: I don’t even remember that…

Frolyak and Karpiak: And we remember. We all remember.

President: Television remembers everything.

Karpiak: It’s been three years now. Today is the anniversary of your inauguration. The country is at war. You have become the man of the year – the choice of readers of the authoritative magazine Time. How do you feel after all this experience now, after three years in Ukrainian politics, not only in Ukrainian but also in world politics?

President: For me, no major changes in values ​​have taken place today. For me, great world politics is, first of all, the place of Ukraine. And it’s true. Then it was more a dream of political experience. Moreover, I did not have diplomatic experience. Today I understand where Ukraine belongs. I honestly fight for this place together with our people and together with the army – everyone. Because in this war we are fighting for a place not only on our territory, not only our whole land, but a place in the world.

I don’t want us to…. sorry for this comparison… stuck in the teeth of great empires. Yes, we are definitely not an empire, and I really like that we are a different state. A completely different mentality. We don’t want to, even if we had the opportunity. We have the same attitude as people: Yes, let it be there… (shows far away), the main thing – that here we were normal. Peace, tranquility, everyone at home, everyone at this table, but in a more homely way, as we met.

Therefore, the most important thing is the place of our state… This is about diplomacy. I believe that our most important course is Ukraine’s place among equals. And this is then manifested in the European Union or in various defense unions, alliances or among the guarantors of security – these will be the results of this consistent policy.

Despite the war, I see this sequence, and we are following this path. And today, even to the results of this policy, I address the result of what you said, man of the year, etc.…. These are our people, they are the people of the year. All this is due to our unification. Therefore, all orders, medals, awards, names of streets or squares that are addressed to me, they are definitely addressed not to me, but to all the people who defend our state, each in his place.

Who is in Ukraine and who is protecting it is a very important moment. This is a society. The difference between citizens and society. Society here, citizens – someone has left, someone is changing their passport – these are other things, I do not want to describe them. That was not the question. And… sorry, I answered for a long time that has changed. And the answers have probably changed.

Karpiak: Yes, I hear from the answers that have changed.

President: Many things have changed. I enjoy the moment. What was yesterday and what will be tomorrow. We are sitting with you now. Wife next door. Deoccupied Kyiv region. They didn’t take Donbas. That is, with ordinary things, there are things that are strategic for me as a person and as a president.

And from that moment on, I get everything I can. Satisfaction with the positive results of our state, because I can not get pleasure from the fact that someone is blocked, someone is bad, someone died and so on. But I live today, and most importantly, I saw better. That is, over the years, I began to see a little worse when it comes to small things, but the big things – what’s next, what we want – I think these things I began to see no better, but in principle began to see.

Frolyak: Ms. Olena, going back to that interview three years ago, I remember you weren’t thrilled with your husband’s idea of ​​running for president. Of course, it is probably counterproductive to regret something now. Three years have passed. A lot has changed, unfortunately, the war has begun. How do you feel now? How has your family’s life changed since the war and how have you changed personally?

Zelenska: I also remember our conversation and I can explain why I had such emotions then. It seems to me that like any woman, I understood that ahead of us – our family, the two of us and him (points to the President) – are facing great challenges, which we will have to somehow fight, live. And like any person who wants peace, I really didn’t want that. But I also understood that he could handle all the trials, I just knew it would be difficult. It was not easy, and now, of course, not easy. Who knew three years ago that the worst ordeal awaited us was this war that had begun.

I can’t say that anything has changed since the beginning of this war. As he was a reliable man and man, so he remained. His settings have not changed, his point of view does not change. The family, of course, like all Ukrainian families, is now separated.

Frolyak: Your husband was practically taken away by the war…

Zelenska: Nobody will take my husband away. Even war (Smile). But, yes, he lives at work. We hardly see him. We haven’t seen each other in two and a half months, have we?

President: Yes.

Zelenska: We talked only by phone. Now we have had several opportunities to meet, and I am also grateful to you for this opportunity, because we are now spending time together.

President: Dating on TV.

Zelenska: Dating on the TV, yes, thank you (Laughs). This is, you know, a great opportunity to drink tea together. I can’t say that our family has changed a lot, maybe I have changed (appeals to the President), you can say that, but…

President: You look great.

Frolyak: You look very good.

Zelenska: Thank you! That is, we are holding on, everything is fine, our family is the same. Unfortunately, we can’t sit down, have dinner with the whole family, talk about all things.

President: Well, we said on the phone: What are you having for dinner now, what am I having for dinner. But you couldn’t share that with me. I feel like I didn’t agree on something, I didn’t milk something tastier…

Zelenska: Yes, we are telling. We have dinner by phone. That is, you see, everything is fine, we are joking, but we are really waiting, like everyone who can be reunited, like all families in Ukraine who are separated now, who are waiting for their relatives, who want to be again together.

Karpiak: Before moving on to important military matters, because I would also like to ask about them, Mr. President, what are you most proud of during your presidency to date?

President: What am I proud of? I think that our people are always respected, and these are not just banal words, because people are not only in war, people in peacetime, people are the environment, they are the ones you see, who are for you and for whom you are . I have always believed in the Ukrainian people, I have always believed. Both this war and this strength in the union are another or the most important proof. Not just proof of my words or my confidence, but proof to the whole world that we have such people. I am proud of that….

Karpiak: Then I will put it another way: What do you consider your greatest achievement? What have you managed to achieve in these three years?

President: It is difficult for me to say that, it is true, and it has always been a great difficulty for me. It is difficult for me to talk about myself, or about my steps, or about the steps of those around me.

It seems to me that any result should be evaluated when you have reached the end, and this result is absolutely clear. If we talk about the war, about what happened and how it is happening now, we need to get to the end. I think that despite this, you know, almost like summer, very warm spring, we see one thing outside the windows, but we do not see that in other cities.

There is a specific war. And our deoccupied region says that life has returned completely again, but the information that I have, and in principle everyone has, says that there is a war in Ukraine. And so the result and assessment of what we do, how it all started, how it will end, can be said only when it ends.

Karpiak: Reasonable. So it doesn’t make sense to ask about your biggest mistakes, because we don’t know yet whether it will be a mistake or not.

President: Well, you can…

Karpiak: You talked about people. That’s what I also wanted to ask. Three months of politics have taught you that people may not be what you expected them to be. And now people are our greatest value. You find yourself in a situation where there are very few people left with you who started your political path with you. Why did this happen?

President: I think this is a great result. Truth. First of all, it means that my priorities are the result and to achieve this result with those people who want such a result. Their lives are not measured by other values, that is, our values ​​coincide in terms of these results. Second, politics changes people. I just don’t want to use this banal word “nepotism”, but with all that, I really think that there aren’t many of my own and there aren’t many strangers in politics, because politics changes the situation – and we have to run away. The war also changed. Not everyone ran further…

Some ran in the other direction, some a little further, and some ran abroad and maybe even now are fleeing, but these are people fleeing from themselves in the first place, not from Ukraine, I’m sure of that. That’s why they remain reliable or the most reliable, I’m sure.

And even some people surprised me by staying side by side. They were not surprised that I thought they would leave their state or position, no. I don’t think it’s a bad thing when someone shows weakness, or maybe it’s not even a weakness, but an adequacy.

I can’t assess it adequately to the end now, because we don’t know how it will end. I’m sure that victory, I live with it from day one. We are following this path, there is no crossroads, there are no alternatives and here I have no diplomacy, but a clear course.

Even the course towards the European Union, despite the fact that the end point is the European Union, even towards the EU we use different paths and different approaches, because people are different. Then with Russia and with this war – one course, one way and one understanding. Therefore, it is clear why politics, war, values ​​and, probably, time change people. They change and leave you.

Maybe you expected something different from me, you tell me.

Zelenska: Surnames? (Laughs).

Karpiak: No, not surnames. But there is one out of sync. You say that politics changes people, and Ms. Olena says that you have not changed. Haven’t you changed for her?

President: Maybe I’m not just a politician.

Zelenska: You are not just politicians until the end.

Karpiak: Don’t you feel like a politician?

President: I feel like a president. Exactly.

Froliak: That’s a great answer. It seems to me that your advantage is that you are not a complete politician, especially now that the country is at war. But let’s go back to the time when you became a politician. I remember very well the words when you stood on the rostrum of the Verkhovna Rada and said that we did not start this war, but we had to end it. Then you believed that it could end diplomatically. Today, when there is a large-scale war, a terrible war and terrible destruction, it is clear that this will not happen and diplomatically we will not win this war, but will win it only on the battlefield. When did you first understand this, when did you feel it and why will we not defeat it diplomatically?

President: When I first felt it, if possible, today I will not answer this question. I understand exactly when the understanding came to me, and I understand exactly what choice I made, what I started to treat and what I was preparing for. Therefore, I believe that this is not the answer to date.

But still, the meaning of the words you just talked about has changed. And we did not start – it is true, but we have to end the war. I can repeat these words today, but the meaning is different. I really thought that we could end with a pure dialogue. Now I understand that the graduations will also be diplomatic. The very end.

But, unfortunately, I thought that this is a dialogue that has an appropriate term, that in this dialogue it will be possible to find answers to many questions and many decisions with the Russian side. And now it’s like a car – not a petrol and not an electric car – a hybrid. That is why the war is so difficult, and victory will be very difficult. She will be bloody, she will definitely be in battle, but the ending will definitely be in diplomacy.

Because there are some things that, apart from the negotiating table, we will not be able to finish. Because we want to return everything, and the Russian Federation wants not to give everything away. In other words – do not give anything. Therefore, the ending will still be like this.

Froliak: But if you go back to the days before the war, I remember a little bit that you were a little nervous when Western intelligence so strongly recommended preparing for the invasion and said that everything would be very difficult. You said, “Listen, let’s not panic, we have everything under control…” Did you really not believe that we would start a war?

President. We lived in a war. We lived in a constant war, it was completely hybrid, and it was so until then. We understood from which territories – cyberattacks and so on. You remember cutting down various sites, I don’t want to talk about law enforcement and our intelligence anymore. Everyone remembers what happened and what the pressure was. It was long before Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

We understood that one way or another was being prepared. The extent or impudence of what we saw with you, no one fully understood.

It is one thing when you understand that tanks will leave Belarus, that Russia will attack you through Belarus. And it’s another matter when rockets fly at you specifically from Belarus. This is the difference. It seems small.

They warned that the offensive technique could begin from that side. But the difference is big – you are at war with someone: you are at war with the forces and means that are on the territory of Belarus, which pass through Belarus and go to Ukraine, or you are at war with two countries. The devil in the details.

Therefore, no one knew until the end what was happening.

This is all untrue, no matter what intelligence tells us. Nobody knew the details to the end. Everyone was preparing for various events. We had our own training. Different intelligence agencies of our partner countries had their own training and their own warnings.

No one had more details than we knew and possessed. We didn’t find anything bigger than what we were told. Well, we can talk about it, honestly, for hours. I would start this conversation about this offensive in October, to be honest – what was happening, how we were preparing, what were the messages, what were the steps – the first economic, financial, cyber, blockade, gasoline shortage … how it happened . Reduction of energy volumes, etc. I would start from September to October, about that.

It is fair to start in 2014, but a full-scale invasion, I believe … that the hybrid artillery shelling began in the fall.

Frolyak: But the large-scale offensive began on the morning of the 24th. I would like to ask you two. You know, now Ukrainians, when they meet, ask the first question: Where did the war catch you? Where have you been, what have you been doing? Some – on Kilimanjaro, the second – in Mexico, the third – at home. I got a call from work, and I went to the coffee machine at four in the morning. War is war, and coffee must be drunk. Do you remember that – 4.00 on February 24? Can you two tell – the first emotions, the first call?

Zelenskyy: We are the third – we were not on Kilimanjaro, we were at home…

Frolyak and Karpyak: We were also at home.

Zelenskyy: Usually at 4.00 we do not make coffee. This is usually the case.

Zelenska: I remember waking up to strange sounds outside the window, like everyone else. It was dark – almost night then. And I see that Volodymyr  is not around. I went to the next room, where I found him. He was dressed, in a suit, but without a tie. Did I understand… I asked what was going on? And he said only: It has begun!

Emotion cannot be conveyed here – it is both horror and numbness. He (Volodymyr Zelenskyy, – Ed.) Told me this and left.

I understand that at that moment he was like a tightrope. We all immediately realized that life had changed forever. And now I live when he finally says to me: Well, it’s over! Victory!

I don’t think I’ll be the first to tell him, because he’s always at work now, but I want to hear it with others, at least on TV.

You say? (Olena Zelenska turned to Volodymyr Zelenskyy).

Zelenskyy: We have already heard the clapping, it’s true. Olena is absolutely right – I was ready, I was already leaving. I got calls to the boys we heard. I received the signal a little earlier when the shots started. Even earlier. When the preparations began, we were ready… This was monitored by intelligence, the military. We understood where the risk of attack might come from. So as soon as the training started, there were shots from the invasion – I received a signal, I got a call… I arrived.

I remember only one thing… Elena basically said everything – I said only one thing, that children need to be explained everything, it is normal to say that the war has started – you do not need to invent anything. Everyone should understand how to behave…

I remember coming home very late because we had a meeting, it seems, the National Security and Defense Council. We discussed these issues, and all together. All the paperwork and structure that we will do has been prepared. We understood that if it starts, how the state should work as one organism. Some have to be to ensure the work of the financial structure – the National Bank. We did some things in advance. This also applies to the state reserve, etc. That is, everything was safe, so to speak. We understood the risks, so the structure was clear… I think it was the day before – I don’t think I remember.

Karpiak: But did Olena explain to the children?

Zelenska: Well, they needed to explain something when you woke them up at 4:00 and said, let’s pack up just in case. But they (children, – Ed.) Somehow surprised me… I tried to be energetic, cheerful, as if nothing like that was happening, and they somehow disciplinedly followed all my instructions – gathered quickly.

After a while, comes the realization that we don’t know when we see Dad again. There were tears several times. But still, they are doing well – like Dad. They know that he will endure and they will endure.

Karpiak: Mr. President, since we have already talked about February 24 – how we were ready militarily for this day, because, for example, I live in Bucha and it came as a surprise to me how quickly Russian troops found themselves in this town – actually near Kyiv. Were we ready for that?

Zelenskyy: In terms of the amount of force used by the Russian Federation… using absolutely everything, even reserves, using, as we call it, silent mobilization. It was not loud, because mobilization is when there is a war… They could not declare war on us – they called it a “military operation”. That’s why we knew that there was a quiet mobilization and so on. And they transferred a lot of troops – the concentration was in the Crimea and Belarus. The focus was on different areas.

And so nothing happened along the borders, so it did not increase – they left, rotated, came and so on. It’s really such a big, big volume. I think that no European country would be able to cope with such a volume today.

We are 28 times smaller in area. And when a large army attacks you, you can’t concentrate, for example, around Kyiv. You need to look and provide air defense, and tanks, equipment, and infantry fighting vehicles, and so on. The military, most importantly – professional military personnel. We are grateful to Trosh and the Troshniks themselves understand this.

All this amount of equipment and military, sorry for the comparison, is smeared all over this area. That’s how it is. We do not need an army of 250,000 in such a territory, but 120,000 in combat, right? This was the first decree at the beginning of 2022, when I saw all the concrete figures – we have money, we have no money, but plus 100 thousand (military) for next year. This was my decree. But plus 100 thousand could not stop them. They couldn’t. Today it is 700 thousand. Today you see the result that instead of 100 thousand 700 thousand are fighting. This is at the time of the war.

I do not want to discuss NATO now, but there are appropriate weapons in the Allies, there are Patriots (SAMs), there are air defenses that can protect the sky from the first missile strikes, because of which we lost air defenses. And people began to flee. You remember there was such a little chaos – people started running, and there were traffic jams and cars were thrown. All this helped the enemy, not the other way around.

So was it possible to prepare for this war? I think we prepared well. They didn’t know many things.

So, I want to end the thought. Even with the increased volumes, analysts said that with the format of the army and equipment available in Ukraine – they will come in a few days. Why did everyone say that in two or three days they (Russians, – Ed.) Will be able to capture us? Because this analytics is known.

Karpiak: Now military analysts will have to revise their methodology.

Zelenskyy: Everything is prepared. And we understand so well… When our American partners receive a request from us, they understand that we understand each other exactly… But it’s a lot of money, not just for conversion. That is, we need to move from all Soviet weapons to NATO models, and if you are not a member of NATO, how can you do that? You are not given licenses, you are not sold anything. This was all before the war, so I had to say that I don’t want to quote some of our partners – then dig trenches.

No, digging trenches, you can’t do what we did. It is impossible to just dig trenches. It is impossible to win the war with a shovel. They told us to dig trenches, and we told them to give us weapons.

Karpiak: I am more in favor of re-evaluating the system of my work, because only one of the few American intelligence services was able to predict the fierce resistance of Ukrainians and the fact that Russia will not go further. We have already talked about the war. We have such a more private conversation today, but I can’t help but ask about Mariupol. What can be said now about the fate of our defenders, because this is a point that everyone is watching? I understand that a lot is not possible for the safety of these people, but if you can say something…

Zelenskyy: One can only say that these are absolutely heroic people. Not forgetting that there, except for the National Guard, .. everywhere they said that there were only National Guardsmen… But with all due respect – there are 400 border guards. Many of them were wounded and killed, but there were 400. A large number of paratroopers, as well as police officers, SSU representatives, medics, military medics, and local people. There are a lot of heroic people.

I am now saying that all these people are absolutely heroic.

What happened there is one question. They defended Mariupol. Unfortunately, a large number of our pilots died. These are absolutely heroic people who knew what was difficult, who knew that it was almost impossible to fly – to fly to Azovstal and bring them medicine, food, water, pick up the bodies of the wounded. All this was happening, a lot of things were happening, but no one could comment on all this. Why? Because there were no air corridors to Azovstal because of their powerful air defense.

We did not just say: Help us. Close the sky for us. It’s not just all these conversations. Not that we are afraid of planes. They (the occupiers, – Ed.) Were also afraid, because they saw the losses. But the question was not only in the planes, but in their air defense – the question was in their missiles. In many ways.

And that’s why you can’t just approach Mariupol. Helicopter pilots for many weeks, knowing that 90% of pilots did not return. Imagine what these people were doing – they were flying there. We lost a lot of pilots. People simply flew to give them (defenders of Mariupol, – Ed.) Food, water, weapons and took away the wounded. Many people have been lost.

So when we talk about Mariupol, I want us to talk about everyone.

What’s more, all civilians who were blocked at the plant have been taken out so far. Evacuation of other civilians, those who were near the plant or in Mariupol, they were taken out long ago. Civilian medics were taken away. The seriously wounded were taken away, the wounded were taken away.

It seems to me that in the near future, even in the coming days, everyone will be taken away. Let’s see. The structure is complex. We agreed that the unblocking would be done by Western mediators and partners. I negotiated with Turkey, Switzerland, Israel. First with France because of the leaders’ relations with Russia, when we saw that it was impossible to unblock by military means.

I don’t know, but dozens or hundreds of times I have talked to the leaders of other countries about providing me with the appropriate weapons so that we can reach Mariupol by military means in order to unblock these people. And people who were willing to go, they are also 90% sure they may not return. There are an absolutely large number of heroic people who would like to help as much as possible. But there is what is.

Today, our guys have the full right to go out and save their lives. The military command informed all those blocked at Azovstal. The mediators, along with the countries I told you about, were actually UN representatives – we agreed with Secretary General Guterres. That’s all. And today they are taken out or in process. And then what the UN, the Red Cross, the Russian Federation took on, that they will all be safe. And they will expect a format of exchange.

I think that the process led by the intelligence, export, withdrawal and continuation of the exchange dialogue will end today.

There are cases where diplomacy needs to work as well. We will take them home.

Karpiak: You have repeatedly expressed your readiness to meet with Volodymyr Putin. What is the purpose of this meeting? Do you believe that this meeting can end the war?

Zelenskyy: I think it depends on when we meet. The goal is changing. Like a hybrid war, an honest hybrid will be peace and hybrid encounters. For example, if we met today, by the way, the issue of Mariupol would also be.

If we are in two or three months, this issue will not be, maybe it will be, we do not know, maybe it will be partial. If we had met from the beginning, we would have understood the situation in Ukraine. If we meet today, we know what is occupied and what is deoccupied. If we meet in two months, we do not know in what condition everything will be. We can predict what we will do and what the outcome will be, but it is also, you know, looking to the future, it’s definitely not about reality.

The reality is today, now and here. Therefore, to resolve issues of exchange, deoccupation and peace, stopping the war – that’s the whole agenda. And it was like that at first, but not so specific. There were no specifics in the results of the current war. Today, when there is this or that specificity, we understand these or those threats, risks, how many people here and there, many things depend on us, but many things depend on Russia. Without talking to them, we must then state the result in which we are. Here we come, well, we stand, wait or shoot. Tomorrow, for example, we were covered with artillery and retreated. The day after tomorrow, we went forward again.

Therefore, we have desires and goals. Yes, we want the territories back and we want to end this war. But how it will be, when it will be – depends on the time when there will be a conversation with Putin. I think that the conversation between Ukraine and Russia will definitely take place. We do not know in what format: with or without intermediaries, in a broad circle, at the level of the president or a two-way conversation.

For example, security guarantees are an important subject, an important contract, an important document, and it is important that it is not a piece of paper, but a reality as well. May he help us in the future. To us, children, other leaders of the state. That this was the basis that is the basis of security of the state and society of Ukraine.

Today, we are considering a range of security guarantees with trusted partner countries. We are developing this project with them, we have developed it, somewhere we like something, we do not like something. We, as Ukrainians, want too much, they, as Europeans, are too skeptical. So somewhere in the middle we will find the answer. The answer is important, because we need the parliaments of the guarantor countries to vote for this document, there was ratification. This is an international agreement, that’s what Ukraine needs.

We want a separate agreement. Today, everything has come to the point that this agreement provides for a circle of partner states around Ukraine without Russia. Security guarantors without Russia. Bucha changed some things. Time changes things. That is, not only where we are moving, but how Russia has behaved. Who is ready to sit at the negotiating table, and who is not ready. Who wants, and who will never sit down. Different situation every day, it all depends on the time. Today it is one agreement, it is currently being considered. And there should be a separate bilateral conversation with Russia, with the President of the Russian Federation.

What will happen after we sign it and what will be this agreement – we’ll see. There will be a meeting or not. It will be the result of terrible Mariupol, or we will go to Mariupol, Volnovakha, etc. and see five Buchs, God forbid, maybe it won’t happen. How do they treat, for example, the people of Mariupol. I said this when there was a bombing, if we know that they killed people in Azovstal, there will never be any talks with Russia again.

Today we see that they found a way to keep these people alive, and they took them out. Then there will be an exchange. Much also depends on the results of these processes. That’s why it’s hard for me to say what. We know that I have an understanding in general, I have answers to the most difficult questions about Donbas, but these are my answers, and we still need to know the answers of others.

Frolyak: You talk about the situation in the country every day in your appeals. I want to thank you personally as a journalist, as an editor and as a citizen. Because they are sincere, frank, emotional. But I want to ask your wife, Ms. Olena, I remember you saying that you probably won’t be the president’s speechwriter, but you can edit the lyrics. So I want to ask, are you editing them?

Olena Zelenska: No, I’m not editing. It seems to me that I would not be able to do it anymore. Because their work is focused on such large sizes that I might not have had time to physically edit everything. And I basically don’t want to do that. We can argue about literary things. Sometimes I don’t have enough tricks, and sometimes I don’t have enough. But we are already discussing this ex post facto.

I think I have other missions. And they are doing very well with the team. The texts are not shown to me in advance. I think that Volodymyr doesn’t always see all the texts very early. But he always tells the speechwriters what he wants to say in his address. It does not happen that someone sat down and wrote an essay for the president. This never happens.

That’s why I can’t help here, because these are his opinions (of the President, – Ed.), Not mine. I might be able to arrange them somehow, but it would take me much longer than his assistants.

Frolyak (to Zelenskyy): Do you find it difficult to give these speeches every day?

President: It is important for me not to speak to others. And it’s always been important to understand what I’m doing. I’m not a mechanism, not a robot. I do not have time to write the full text for the appeal. I spend a lot of time on the most difficult appeals, compared to other examples. It is important for me that all my thoughts are conveyed. The idea of ​​a speech is also the number one task for me.

To be honest, our team is small. Usually it’s me and one or a maximum of two people. And more is not needed. Because many people have many opinions.

Karpyak: Olena and I understand what we are talking about. After all, your daily appeals are also work. We, as people who work with information, understand that there is a fruitful day, and there is when there is nothing special to say. How do you cope? You need to go out in the evening and tell something.

Zelenskyy: I think that I work every day and do not rest. So, I have something to say. Sometimes there really is nothing to say in the news when nothing has happened. For me, it’s happiness when nothing happened. When there is no news, this is the best news (Smiles). But at the same time there are many different jobs. Something is coming up that you need to talk about.

Another story is that psychologically it is important to show that I am here like you. We appeal to people. They understand where you are, that nothing happened. It seems to me that if I hadn’t talked for two or three days, people would be able to live with it, 100%. But there would be a lot of questions: where did the president go, what is happening in the country, then something is wrong. And this destabilizes the situation. So sometimes you need to talk to people, even if there is no very important information, and it is current. But it is still important to reach out to people. At least today, to victory. I want faster, I do not have so many appeals (Smiles).

Frolyak: I want to talk a little bit about the psychological side. Ms. Olena, I recently interviewed a doctor. We have already finished talking, in particular, about women. And here I say: how to keep women healthy now. Because now there are a lot of trials on women’s shoulders. How would you assess the role of Ukrainian women in this war?

Olena Zelenska: I immediately admit that I have always highly valued the Ukrainian woman. I think our women are the best. There are 2 million more of us in Ukraine, so there are women everywhere. Women in the Armed Forces, women volunteers, women in medicine, women teachers.

In addition, women are entrusted with many other things that we have to do outside of our professional activities. These are the children we all need to take care of right now. Now everything is broken. Everyone needs to be fed, everyone needs to be taught lessons. That’s all we have to do.

First, we feel it all. I’m sure society sees it. And finally, after the victory, we will remember the heroism of our women and will not allow not to change the standards for the difference in wages (and I want to remind you that sometimes it is 20%). We dealt with these issues before the war. I am sure that after the victory we will return to them. And then it will no longer be just a topic for discussion, but a necessity. Because we have to show that we all won this victory together.

Well, and separately about health. It seems to me that this is a very important topic. I’m starting a big project now. This is a national program of psychological health of Ukrainians. We do not want to gossip and talk about the terrible consequences of the war, but we all get psychological pressure, almost all of us can have psychological problems during the war and after it.

There are some parts of the population that are most affected by the war. These are children, the elderly, people who have lost their homes, or those who have lost loved ones. And these are, of course, the military returning from the war. In particular, it is a post-traumatic disorder that awaits a large number of people.

If we do nothing now in terms of the global system of psychological care, we could have great bad consequences not only immediately after the war, but also, perhaps, in 10 years and beyond. So we have now started a lot of work on this. We have the support of the WHO, we receive help from different countries. For example, excellent protocols in the United States, Israel, which work a lot with military trauma.

The first part we are now working on is an audit of the system that already exists. We need to understand the critical points on which we must focus first. On the one hand, this is a big problem, and on the other hand, we are lucky that mental health is almost a major topic in almost all discussion platforms in the world.

After the coronavirus pandemic, it rose one step higher. We survived the pandemic and now we have a war. Therefore, our country needs as much of this assistance and work in this direction as possible.

I tied it all to women. Because again, women in most cases suffer the most. Even if they do not suffer physically, many people suffer psychologically. Therefore, we take care of each other and women first.

Karpiak: We met in early April. Then I asked: what a victory for you. You said that this is the way to the demarcation line, as of February 23, before the full-scale invasion, it could be considered a victory. What is the victory for you today?

Zelenskyy: I believe that whatever the appetite of different segments of our population, the most valuable thing is to keep as many people as possible, the military are brave people who are ready to give their lives. I believe that this is our great value and treasure, as the result of this invasion has shown.

In my opinion, one should not be very greedy at the moment, although this is not entirely true. Because justice is when we take everything away. Our state will definitely turn everything around.

I believe that today to save, and this issue will be tens of thousands of people. Because no one just gives anything away, but there is land where they (Russian troops, – Ed.) Came and occupied, and there is land where they have already dug. They stand there, they sit, they are deep in some areas.

Therefore, I believe that to reach the line that was before February 24 without unnecessary losses is a victory for our state today. Yes, not all territories were returned to the end. Not everything is so simple, it is. But we must look at the price of this war and the price of every deoccupation.

All the same, everything will turn around. Absolutely, that’s for sure. We have broken the backbone of the largest or one of the strongest armies in the world. We have already done that. And, by the way, psychologically we did it too. It is very important. They will not be back on their feet for the next few years for sure. But let’s not forget that all our military want to live the same way. They just have such a job.

That is why it is very important for me that we understand the value of each of these difficult steps. And the price of each step both forward and backward. Because stepping back is not easy. All this is very expensive (I’m talking about people).

So go to this line of demarcation, the timeline, and it will be a victory. This will indicate that they did not capture us and we defended our land. And then we move on to the second part.

I would like the mind of this country (RF, – Ed.) To be enough for us to talk about the second part at the negotiating table. That’s what I hope for. And that the result of this conversation will be final justice.

Frolyak: If you take the example of Russia, which won in the USSR in Germany, but by and large, today it lost. It slipped into a dictatorship, lost its economy. Russia lost in the end. How can we win but not lose? Win but not lose?

Zelenskyy: I think that if you won, you did not lose.

Karpyak: Olena means a long-term perspective, so as not to be dizzy from success. After all, now we are in the center of the world.

Zelenskyy: We are in the center of the world. I would like not to lose our status. We have already paid a lot for it. And people, and forces, and time. Therefore, we must always remember the value of these losses.

Russia created a cult without understanding the value of that victory, without realizing that the value of the victory over Nazism was a united world.

This is human value. The way they abandoned their troops, realizing that we would fight, and they didn’t care. I was recently told that they were thinking of taking away the bodies of their soldiers. Imagine when the war started. They just pretended there were no corpses. Then, when they began to admit, they took a little.

Therefore, it seems to me that the value of people is important. Do not lose your head, remember how every war and occupation can end. That all these “victories”, somehow for them “victory” of occupation of the Crimea or Donbass, are very temporary.

It doesn’t even follow in history, but yes, something went wrong. All this will return, because this is our territory.

The most important thing with us is the truth. You know what respect for Ukrainians, now Ukraine is fashionable. Even those people who have done nothing for the army, all the same when they are met abroad and find out that you are Ukrainian, they say – a hero.

It is nice that we are greeted with respect and then asked if we can help in any way. It is important not to lose this modernity. This is a manifestation of Ukraine as a nation.

This is a war we cannot lose. Because this is not a war against Russia, but a war with Russia for Ukraine. This already shows that we have the truth, we are fighting for our own. This is a very strong position. You are not an aggressor who came somewhere.

This is a war for Ukraine’s independence, which cannot be lost, for our freedom and sovereignty. All for yourself. And psychologically, people need to understand what’s going on. You can’t lose for yourself.

Frolyak: Glory to Ukraine!

Zelenskyy: Glory to the heroes!